What information do we have about needing to go to 2.2 before 3.x for AA/Carplay to work?
Trying to understand the situation, if needed add functionality to Syn3 Updater
I can only speak from what I’ve seen, I’ve not had AA issues, but I have seen CP issues.
Older APIMS, G series if they are below 2.0.16074 I usually see CP issues going to 3.x, my assumption here is that part of the 2.0.16074 install adds a driver for the H series USB hub to the OS (and I could be wrong, but something seems to be added).
Getting them up to 2.2 before trying to bring them to 3.4 also offers the benefit that if they can’t update successfully to 2.2 odds are they’ll have an issue with the updater.
Hmm, but how does this make sense if the 3.3/3.4 is a reformat of the entire eMMC 
Not sure if this has anyhting to do with AA/CarPlay…
Early Sync versions like Sync 3 Version 1 thru early 2 use a disk overlay which needs to be “removed” thru the use of version 2.2.17011 to make the unit compatible for later versions of Sync 3.0. This does not include the later versions of 3.2+ (MY18.5+). This also includes the necessary drivers and also includes an updated permitted hub listing.
right, but wouldn’t the reformat do that anyway?
Well here’s the question, does the reformat install a fresh copy of QNX Auto or just reformat a “volume”?
Go back to MFT and you had an OS of WinCE 6.5 and before folks had access to ForScan the hack to enable NAV on a non-NAV APIM used a vulnerability in WinCE 6.5 where you loaded a file with a .jpg extension to enable the NAV display. It just modified the registry.
So if we look at this as being OS + Sync3 as an app, I’m booting my OS off of an OS volume and then making a call to load the app. Back in the Win 3.x days as an example you booted DOS and then made the call to the executable. The OS only knew to call path\file it didn’t care what version it was, you could have Win 3.0 on one hard drive and have Win 3.1 on another and literally swap them in and out.
We “know” that official Ford update can vary by VIN even on the same year/model based on the update history as Ford knows it. We’d need someone that still had their download to go from 1.0 to 2.0/2.2, but I’m thinking that 2.0/2.2 upgrade loads a new driver version to the OS which supported the H series hub.
If we take what was said above about 2.2.17011, removing the overlay could align with Ford’s deprecating Sync apps and using the gained ram/storage for another purpose (like getting the CP bugs fixed).
We’d need access to the complete change log, but my guess is something like this.
2.0 add driver to OS to support H series up for full AA/CP support (2017 H series factory load)
2.2+ keeps the driver update function, pulls the overlay which was there, and the extra space “fixes” some CP space problems (2018 factory load)
3.0/3.2 now have a common disk layout/image (which makes dev work easier) with 3.2 having an updated USB permit list (and possibly a driver change as this would explain why some folks have an issue with swapping in a USB A/C hub on non-3.2/3.4 native APIMS after a reformat) along with a GUI refresh to start (2019).
Yes, for 3.2+, but not for the 3.0 updates…
but people who have upgraded from 1.x to 3.4 have complained that AA/Carplay aint working, and the reason has been deemed as not having put 2.2 on first, but i don’t see how this makes sense
you can open the reformat tool up and see what it does, it repartitions the eMMC which is why i don’t think the “you skipped 2.2 thats why AA/Carplay isn’t working” makes much sense
So let’s go back to what I asked, in the reformat are you just reformatting an entire volume or is it just partitions on a volume?
The QNX-IFS is 3044628 in size on 2.0, 3071900 on 2.2 (which would make sense if the disk overlays are pulled) and 3422268 on 3.3.
If this is just overwriting files on a partition that isn’t being reformatted what you have is a case of the needed file not being present in builds above 2.2. This would explain the CP problems that people have going directly from 1.x to 2.3 and this same issue would carry over using the updater to get to 3.4.
The factory has a golden image that gets updated every time a build becomes the build for that model\year which they use for the initial load of the APIM, the missing file/driver is already in the image. Hence the reason we don’t usually hear about the issue with J series APIMs since those came from the factory with 2.2
I think finding the file/delta is going to be a case of mounting the QNX-IFS and doing a file list compare between 1.0, 2.0, 2.2 and 2.3. There should be a new file or version in 2.0 which is also present in 2.2, but missing from 2.3.
The reformat tool performs a low level reformat of the eMMC or disk, which would remove any overlay or partitioning that existed, so there is no merit to the claim about not upgrading to 2.2 before going to 3.2+. Sync 3.0 upgrades can be affected by the 2.2 scenario.
I think it is very likely that people are purchasing non-authentic Ford usb hubs and that is the primary cause of the issue. We know there are a lot of reproduction and fake hubs out there for cheap. This is the most likely cause, I feel.
As far as the question about the reformatting tool reformatting the disk or patition, the answer is the entire disk, or eMMC, is reformatted. This is clearly verified by the fact that the previous software cannot be reinstalled and the tool performs a low level format of the entire disk, in appearance it is freeing up disk space, but in reality it is just reallocating to make existing disk space that is unused available.
Only very early J series were equipped with 2.2 before the switch to 2.3 and finally a mid year change to MY18.5 Sync 3.2.
Looking thru the QNX-IFS has been done many times, maybe not specifically for this issue, but would probably not reveal any information about the formatting of the disk. As far as USB drivers and the hubs permitted JSON file, yes this does show the evolution of the drivers and the listing of permitted hardware. It hasn’t changed much over the years. FMods has a modifier for the hubs permitted file which will let you add your own hubs, provided Sync has drivers installed.
Keep in mind that Ford, as well as many others, did not design the Sync systems to be modified in the ways we are doing so now. The evolution and software updates are a defined path thru the life cycle of the product which are to be followed as released, in their view, and they are correct in this case. The modifications being done to the Sync systems, including 3 and 4, were never intended or planned by Ford or their software partners.
Ok, so if there’s a full low level reformat is the boot/shutdown sequence for the APIM a case of read the OS from storage to RAM, then write back with no overwrite on shutdown?
If so this would allow for the file to be in RAM with a reformat putting the file back while not overwriting the new QNX load.
You probably know this, but like Unix, QNX uses swap file and new image partitions to do exactly that. Linux and Apple to an extent still do that today. Sync is mostly a read only architecture using swap files and storage partitions, like the infamous “rwdata”, where user and “delta” data is stored. This makes for a more robust OS in terms of recovery but at the expense of speed due to having multiple data locations to read for a single transaction. But this is getting off topic…
The bottom line is that needing to go to 2.2. before 3.0 is true, however going to 2.2 before reformatting to 3.2+ is not necessary. As I said before, I believe this is a question of hardware.
If its a hardware question, then there isn’t any harm in making going to 2.2 a pre-req to running the updater to get to 3.4.
The user can then check to see if CP/AA is working for them prior to going to 3.4 from which there’s no rolling back, and as many time as we’ve seen people post about “can I rollback” maybe a red disclaimer screen on the updater before the USB is created is called for when a reformat will result. “If you have a 2016 vehicle you must replace the USB hub prior to performing this upgrade, once this upgrade is performed you cannot rollback to your previous version”
upgrading to 2.2 via syn3updater is a lot of code needed, since this will completely break the auto detect, and I don’t really see how it offers any benefit
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Maybe then just update the doc on the chance someone will read it?
Or list 1.x\2.0 in the drop down, throw a splash with a link to the doc on how to update manually to 2.2?
But again, there has been no evidence that this is relevant, i’m not in the habit of adding information based on theories that have no evidence associated with them. 
This is why i made this topic, to gather whether there has actually been any confirmed case of this “issue”
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I have not seen a confirmed case of the issue and searching thru this forum come up with nothing to support the issue.
By the way…Sync version 2.2.17011 (HN1T-14G381-SA) is the first version of Sync to implement CarPlay, so this is the version to use regarding CarPlay compatibility for updating to Sync 3.0. Not applicable to updating to Sync 3.4 via use of the reformat utility.
SYNC3 version 2.2.17011
This software release is the latest update in our continued efforts to improve system performance, device connectivity, and the overall SYNC experience.
This software contains the following enhancements:
Updated voice recognition engine.
Navigation user interface improvements (if equipped).
Android Auto™ for supported devices.
Apple CarPlay™ for supported devices. Owners of 2016 models with SYNC 3 are required to perform a software update and purchase a hardware upgrade through your dealer.
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