Map Spinning/GPS issues

[Nuthy77]

What is your SYNC Region? UK

What was your Old SYNC Version? 3.4 19200

What is your current SYNC Version? 3.4 21098

What version of Syn3 Updater are you using? Latest

Do you have Navigation? Yes

Have you read the documentation at Syn3 Updater - CyanLabs ? Yes

Do you have a error message, if so what is it? No

---

Please paste your log output or provide the URL to your log file below
(Log files can be found on the root of your USB drive or in %localappdata%\CyanLabs\Syn3Updater\Logs)

CYANLABS - SYN3 UPDATER - V2.4.2.0
Branch: Release
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home (2009)

PREVIOUS CONFIGURATION
Version: 3.4.19200
Region: EU
Navigation: True
Mode: autoinstall

DESTINATION DETAILS
Mode: Drive
Model:  USB  SanDisk 3.2Gen1 USB Device 57.3GB
FileSystem: exFAT
Partition Type: MBR

AUTOINSTALL.LST
; CyanLabs Syn3Updater 2.x - Autoinstall Mode - Sync 3.4.21098 EU

[SYNCGen3.0_ALL_PRODUCT]
Item1 = ENH_DAB - 1U5T-14G658-AF_1598633324000.TAR.GZ
Open1 = SyncMyRide\1U5T-14G658-AF_1598633324000.TAR.GZ
Item2 = VOICE - 5U5T-14G391-AN_1615393794000.TAR.GZ
Open2 = SyncMyRide\5U5T-14G391-AN_1615393794000.TAR.GZ
Item3 = APPS - 5U5T-14G381-ES_1619042260000.TAR.GZ
Open3 = SyncMyRide\5U5T-14G381-ES_1619042260000.TAR.GZ
Options = AutoInstall
[SYNCGen3.0_ALL]
Item1 = GRACENOTES - 4U5T-14G423-AC_1615425645000.TAR.GZ
Open1 = SyncMyRide\4U5T-14G423-AC_1615425645000.TAR.GZ
Options = Delay,Include,Transaction

FILES (4)
1U5T-14G658-AF_1598633324000.TAR.GZ (58.8MB)
4U5T-14G423-AC_1615425645000.TAR.GZ (689MB)
5U5T-14G391-AN_1615393794000.TAR.GZ (1.5GB)
5U5T-14G381-ES_1619042260000.TAR.GZ (847.2MB)

LOG
[03/07/2021 16:14:35] Selected Region: EU - Release: Sync 3.4.21098 - Map Version: Keep Existing Maps
[03/07/2021 16:14:35] Install Mode: autoinstall
[03/07/2021 16:14:35] Checking Existing File: 1U5T-14G658-AF_1598633324000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:14:35] Validated: 1U5T-14G658-AF_1598633324000.TAR.GZ (Skipping Download)
[03/07/2021 16:14:35] Checking Existing File: 4U5T-14G423-AC_1615425645000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:14:38] Validated: 4U5T-14G423-AC_1615425645000.TAR.GZ (Skipping Download)
[03/07/2021 16:14:38] Checking Existing File: 5U5T-14G391-AN_1615393794000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:14:44] Validated: 5U5T-14G391-AN_1615393794000.TAR.GZ (Skipping Download)
[03/07/2021 16:14:44] Checking Existing File: 5U5T-14G381-ES_1619042260000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:14:48] Validated: 5U5T-14G381-ES_1619042260000.TAR.GZ (Skipping Download)
[03/07/2021 16:14:48] Preparing USB drive
[03/07/2021 16:14:48] Formatting USB drive
[03/07/2021 16:14:48] Re-creating partition table as MBR and formatting as ExFat on selected USB drive
[03/07/2021 16:14:56] Generating Autoinstall.lst
[03/07/2021 16:14:56] Checking Existing File: 1U5T-14G658-AF_1598633324000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:14:56] Copying: 1U5T-14G658-AF_1598633324000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:14:59] Validating: 1U5T-14G658-AF_1598633324000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:14:59] Copied: 1U5T-14G658-AF_1598633324000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:14:59] Checking Existing File: 4U5T-14G423-AC_1615425645000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:14:59] Copying: 4U5T-14G423-AC_1615425645000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:15:28] Validating: 4U5T-14G423-AC_1615425645000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:15:31] Copied: 4U5T-14G423-AC_1615425645000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:15:31] Checking Existing File: 5U5T-14G391-AN_1615393794000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:15:31] Copying: 5U5T-14G391-AN_1615393794000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:16:35] Validating: 5U5T-14G391-AN_1615393794000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:16:41] Copied: 5U5T-14G391-AN_1615393794000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:16:41] Checking Existing File: 5U5T-14G381-ES_1619042260000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:16:41] Copying: 5U5T-14G381-ES_1619042260000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:17:31] Validating: 5U5T-14G381-ES_1619042260000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:17:34] Copied: 5U5T-14G381-ES_1619042260000.TAR.GZ
[03/07/2021 16:17:34] ALL FILES DOWNLOADED AND COPIED TO THE USB DRIVE SUCCESSFULLY!

---

Please describe in detail your issue below
…
I have raised this previously and the topic was closed with a suggestion to replace the GPS antenna.
So i have replaced the GPS antenna with a brand new one obtained from Ford directly. I have also replaced the lead between APIM and the new GPS Antenna with new one. I’m still having the same problem with intermittent problems. Every journey i do, the map will always spin here and there (also the compass in IPC spins with it). There are occasions when the arrow is not even on the road and it eventually finds its way back. I’ve also tried rolling back to 3.4 19200 and then upgrading to 3.4 21098 again with a master reset but this does not resolve my issue. As i think i have tried everything now, would there be any benefit of flashing the APIM with the vbf files? Can anyone tell me if the APIM i have (obtained from Poland in 2019) has the right calibration files?

VIN: WF0EXXWPCEFE85409
Sync Version: 5U5T-14G381-EK
APIM Model: JS7T-14G371-GDC
APIM Type: Navigation
APIM Size: 64GB
APIM Free Space: 12G
12/01/2021 13:26:14 +00:00

Partition Type = Free / Total
/fs/sd/MAP/ = 676K / 1.1G
/fs/sd/MAP/ = 16M / 2.7G
/fs/sd/MAP/ = 16M / 2.4G
/fs/sd/MAP/ = 9.3M / 1.5G
/fs/sd/MAP/ = 18M / 2.2G
/fs/sd/MAP/ = 24M / 3.7G
/fs/sd/MAP/ = 308K / 38M
/fs/sd/MAP/ = 8.4M / 3.2G
/fs/sd/MAP/ = 29M / 3.6G
/fs/Nuance/ = 26M / 4.4G
/fs/Nuance/ = 27M / 4.6G
/fs/Nuance/ = 24M / 4.1G
/fs/Nuance/ = 33M / 3.4G
/fs/Nuance/ = 8.4M / 1.9G
/fs/Nuance/grace = 21M / 998M
/fs/rwdata/ = 996M / 1.2G
/fs/rwdata/quip/ = 35M / 35M
/fs/rwdata/quip/ = 90M / 90M
/fs/mp/ = 128M / 1.4G
/fs/mp/resources = 432K / 73M
/fs/images/ = 12G / 54G

APIM AsBuilt (Ford/UCDS)
DE00: 0A6A05DA3702BE4806C2
DE01: 554B0106C00F488000001000
DE02: 0203000000
DE03: 01001D00240107
DE04: 1AC21AA42BD0
DE05: 80
DE06: 07003300000000171C000056566E006A

If anyone thinks i should flash the APIM, is anyone able to provide the VBF files? I have Chinese version of UCDS. If not, is my only option to bin the APIM and get a new one?

Thanks in advance.

[F150Chief]

Did you disconnect the GPSM when you upgraded to Sync 3 from Sync 2?

EDIT: I searched and see you did disconnect the GPSM…
Map Spinning - GPS Issue? - Ford / Sync 3 - CyanLabs Official Community

@Nuthy77

Every journey i do, the map will always spin here and there (also the compass in IPC spins with it). There are occasions when the arrow is not even on the road and it eventually finds its way back.
I’ve installed the new version along with F10 maps, has anyone else experienced the map doing a rotate whilst driving in this version(or any other versions). If I put it fixed north mode the rotate issue doesn’t happen, but if I put in the other 2 modes, every 10 seconds or so it spins/rotates.
I purchased it secondhand in October 2019. It came from a crashed Mondeo and I didn’t find out what year it was unfortunately.

This does not appear to be an APIM programming issue, but looks more like a communication issue between the IPC, APIM, and BCM. Or it could be just loosing GPS lock. I have noticed that the display will move more and have more corrections in other modes than “North” mode.

Is the data above for the APIM in the car now? If the unit came from a Mondeo like yours, it should be ok for programming. The data looks ok to me at first glance…

You could try reloading the entire asbuilt for the APIM and then Master Reset. I’ll research some, I have heard of this and I thought there was a solution.

You did not mention if you are using CarPlay, but there have been issues reported with this in CP and the GPS lock will not return until an ignition cycle.

Also:
SSM 45917 - 2016-2017 Ford/Lincoln - SYNC 3 – Inaccurate Global Positioning System (GPS) Tracking Or GPS Vehicle Icon Spinning Or Spinning Compass

Some 2016-2017 vehicles equipped with SYNC 3 may experience the following concerns; the GPS not tracking the vehicle position correctly, the vehicle location arrow icon spinning in circles on the navigation screen or a spinning compass on non-navigation vehicles. Perform the following procedure to resolve. Enter Bezel Diagnostics per Work Shop Manual (WSM) Section 415-00. Select Testing Settings from the menu. Scroll down and press Clear DR calib. Perform a drive test for approximately 10 minutes, include at least four right turns and four left turns with a vehicle speed of at least 25 MPH. Confirm that GPS position for Navigation or the Compass for non-navigation vehicles is functioning properly.

[Nuthy77]

Yes, that is the asbuilt data in my car now.

I came across the same article about clear calib DR in the test settings. I have selected that and done many journeys since, but still I see the same problem. I did have android auto GPS issues before I changed the antenna and lead, but the new antenna from ford seems to have resolved that or at least I haven’t seen it for the times I have plugged my phone in (to be honest, I don’t plug it in much as my journeys are only 15 mins these days and I tend to always get out the car and forget to grab my phone).

Look forward to any other guidance to resolve before I call it a day and start saving for a new APIM replacement

[Nuthy77]

Below link shows my video recordings of the issue on a journey.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1e7rmjfBz8r-RF8DmIHT2OUaYP1N97P1v

Thanks.

[2irft]

I had exactly the same problem as you, probably worse if compared to your videos. After weeks of analyzing and experimenting it came down to my GPS antenna reception, I ended up just moving the antenna to the external of vehicle and viola.

Generally there are 3 factors affecting your navigation accuracy:

1. Wheel tick frequency and revolution - tells apim how fast/far your vehicle has moved longitudinally (make sure the 7D0-03-01 xxx xxxx xxxx and 7D0-07-03 xx* **xx xxxx) is correct for your vehicle

2. Installation Angle of APIM accelerometer with respect to vehicle - tells APIM how to estimate your direction based using gyro in the event where GPS lock is lost, or to interpolate direction between gps points (7D0-07-02 **** **** **xx and 7D0-07-03 **xx xxxx xxxx)

3. GPS lock - self explanatory

Can you open the “location diagnostics” and “satellite signal” in Testing settings screen and post your screenshots?

[2irft]

forgot to add, you can try a gps signal repeater and see if error still happens, if it works then just reposition your original antenna.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002990142155.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.65e638aa9UWdbd&algo_pvid=6d529a6a-85d2-4b3c-8209-b36ac22efa9d&algo_exp_id=6d529a6a-85d2-4b3c-8209-b36ac22efa9d-9

[F150Chief]

@2irft

Generally there are 3 factors affecting your navigation accuracy:

1. Wheel tick frequency and revolution - tells apim how fast/far your vehicle has moved longitudinally (make sure the 7D0-03-01 xxx xxxx xxxx and 7D0-07-03 xx* **xx xxxx) is correct for your vehicle
2. Installation Angle of APIM accelerometer with respect to vehicle - tells APIM how to estimate your direction based using gyro in the event where GPS lock is lost, or to interpolate direction between gps points (7D0-07-02 **** **** **xx and 7D0-07-03 **xx xxxx xxxx)
3. GPS lock - self explanatory

The settings for Wheel Tick are 20ms for Sync 3 and 40ms for Sync 2 regardless of vehicle model. Installation Angle is a good catch.

[F150Chief]

@Nuthy77

Yes, that is the asbuilt data in my car now.

DE00: 0A6A05DA3702BE4806C2
DE01: 554B0106C00F488000001000
DE02: 0203000000
DE03: 01001D00240107
DE04: 1AC21AA42BD0
DE05: 80
DE06: 07003300000000171C000056566E006A

I compared this to several 2016 and 2017 Mondeo’s and don’t see any issues. Try to reposition the antenna under the center of the dash, if you have not. How long is the antenna cable?

[F150Chief]

I was able to watch one of the videos, they would not download before. The video shows the path of the vehicle going everywhere, not on roads, but not so much really spinning. This is a sure sign of no GPS tracking, and the APIM trying to use the internal gyros for guidance. You can see that the GPS lock is intermittently working as the vehicle marker will jump to a road and show the speed limit icon. This is definitely a GPS lock issue.

[Nuthy77]

It’s so hit and miss, yesterday I didn’t have any wandering but the spins were really bad. The as built is based on a few like for like mondeos with sync3 from factory. I have pulled another for comparison and in one of the blocks I currently have 566E and the one I have just obtained with same wheel size has 566D. There are a few other little bits that differ too. Will see what it does.

As for gps antenna location, it’s currently behind my ipc. Should I move it to behind sync screen? As I say it’s brand new from Ford and is about a month old now. the connection lead between apim and gps antenna is also brand new. Replaced at the same time.

Thanks

[2irft]

@F150Chief

The settings for Wheel Tick are 20ms for Sync 3 and 40ms for Sync 2 regardless of vehicle model. Installation Angle is a good catch.

nice! good to know.

[2irft]

@Nuthy77

As for gps antenna location, it’s currently behind my ipc. Should I move it to behind sync screen? As I say it’s brand new from Ford and is about a month old now. the connection lead between apim and gps antenna is also brand new. Replaced at the same time.

actually your GPS signal looks pretty good to me, for mine the bars were usually around the 25% mark before repositioning the antenna externally (see mine below)

@F150Chief

DE06: 07003300000000171C000056566E006A

Further inspection of this block looks suspiciously incorrect. 171C translates to about 35.49 degrees APIM angle (which is not as steep as your video looks). Yours should be fairly close to 0 degrees as its quite vertical in the X axis.

Can you share the DE06 blocks from other vehicles?

[Nuthy77]

Sure, here are 3 mondeo as built files that I pulled for cars that I used to get the supported features of my car like park assist, heated seats/steering wheel etc. Blocks 7D0-07-xx all look pretty similar apart from Data 2 in 7D0-07-03. Currently mine is 566E, but i’m not sure what that relates too, but the last file is 566D which i was considering changing to as this one was same as mine in terms of style and wheels.

YR17 MJF

7D0-01-01 	0A6A 	05DA 	1743 
7D0-01-02 	02FE 	4206 	C2E4 
7D0-02-01 	554B 	0106 	C041 
7D0-02-02 	0A48 	8000 	00AD 
7D0-02-03 	0000 	DC 	 
7D0-03-01 	0203 	0000 	00E0 
7D0-04-01 	0100 	1D00 	241E 
7D0-04-02 	0102 	E0 	 
7D0-05-01 	1AC2 	1AA4 	2BA2 
7D0-05-02 	D0AE 	 	 
7D0-06-01 	805E 	 	 
7D0-07-01 	0700 	3300 	0019 
7D0-07-02 	0000 	171C 	0013 
7D0-07-03 	0056 	566E 	00FB 
7D0-07-04 	6A4C 	 

LA17 UJG - VIN WF0EXXWPCEHB51928

7D0-01-01 	086A 	05DA 	103A 
7D0-01-02 	02FE 	4206 	C2E4 
7D0-02-01 	554B 	0106 	C041 
7D0-02-02 	0B48 	8000 	00AE 
7D0-02-03 	0000 	DC 	 
7D0-03-01 	0203 	0000 	00E0 
7D0-04-01 	0100 	1D00 	241E 
7D0-04-02 	0107 	E5 	 
7D0-05-01 	1AC2 	1AA4 	2BA2 
7D0-05-02 	D0AE 	 	 
7D0-06-01 	805E 	 	 
7D0-07-01 	0700 	3300 	0019 
7D0-07-02 	0000 	171C 	0013 
7D0-07-03 	0056 	566C 	00F9 
7D0-07-04 	6A4C 	 	 

MT17 BXV - vin WF0EXXWPCEHM66351

7D0-01-01 	006A 	04DA 	1031 
7D0-01-02 	02BC 	4206 	C2A2 
7D0-02-01 	554B 	0106 	C041 
7D0-02-02 	0A48 	8000 	00AD 
7D0-02-03 	0000 	DC 	 
7D0-03-01 	0203 	0100 	00E1 
7D0-04-01 	0100 	1D00 	241E 
7D0-04-02 	0100 	DE 	 
7D0-05-01 	1AC2 	1AA4 	2BA2 
7D0-05-02 	D0AE 	 	 
7D0-06-01 	805E 	 	 
7D0-07-01 	0700 	3300 	0019 
7D0-07-02 	0000 	171C 	0013 
7D0-07-03 	0056 	566D 	00FA 
7D0-07-04 	6A4C

[F150Chief]

@2irft

Further inspection of this block looks suspiciously incorrect. 171C translates to about 35.49 degrees APIM angle (which is not as steep as your video looks).

I thought this also but looking at about 6 mondeo’s they were all the same. If yo look at a Mondeo interior the center stack is pretty laid back, like an Edge or Fusion.

[F150Chief]

@Nuthy77

Blocks 7D0-07-xx all look pretty similar apart from Data 2 in 7D0-07-03. Currently mine is 566E, but i’m not sure what that relates too, but the last file is 566D which i was considering changing to as this one was same as mine in terms of style and wheels.

This is tire diameter. It will not make a significant difference, not like this.

Here is a spreadsheet that tells all…
APIM As Built Database.xlsx (64.1 KB)

[Nuthy77]

It might be the way I recorded it. As I was driving, the only way to video it was to use my dash cam. I stuck my dash cam on the rear view mirror and pointed it down to screen

[2irft]

@F150Chief

I thought this also but looking at about 6 mondeo’s they were all the same. If yo look at a Mondeo interior the center stack is pretty laid back, like an Edge or Fusion.

I just googled the pictures and yeah you’re right, sorry I didn’t look at the pics earlier lol

@Nuthy77

It might be the way I recorded it. As I was driving, the only way to video it was to use my dash cam. I stuck my dash cam on the rear view mirror and pointed it down to screen

Can you share Location Diagnostics screenshot? make sure u scroll down the whole list too.

On mine, the 2D and 3D accuracy were > 25 meters all the time even though HDOP/VDOP/PDOP were all less than 1.2

[Nuthy77]

Hi, ok so I have made some changes in my APIM data. Changes attached. they are highlighted in yellow. Some of them wouldn’t make any difference I know, but I have made it more like the last as build I took for comparison, and it seems to have done something. Todays drive had no spins and the red arrow seemed more smoother (albeit the arrow was slightly behind where I actually was by a little bit). I wont celebrate just yet, I want to do more journeys to make sure, but fingers crossed and I feel confident that it looks better

I will update you when I have competed a few more days driving.

Really appreciate all the help you guys have given me so far on this issue which has been bugging me for months

[Nuthy77]

forgot to say, the bottom line (green text) of the as build data is now the current values for my APIM, the top line was the values before i made the changes.

[F150Chief]

I recognized the old data…I think this might work. The values in the pictures look right.